Hi Christina good piece. I would be interested to know what you think of press coverage of Trump in UK since Trump reelected. I have found it very poor with many people trying to justify the way people voted. The only good thing t can possibly think of coming put of Trump administration is the end of the Ukraine war. I can't understand why Biden is not pushing for this as Ukraine army clearly now very demoralised and keen to gey a negotiated peace and seem to have accepted losing Crimea. All wars end without everyone happy unfortunately. I would like Ukraine to get all their land back but this is clearly not going to happen now for various reasons so I just want the war to end. If Trump can achieve this quickly this will be good
Can't see any other positives from his next 4 years. I hope there is something else as otherwise be long 4 years.
Thank you, Iain. The end of the Ukraine war would, of course, be good, but if it sets the precedent (as it will) that you can invade another country, steal their land and keep it, it certainly won’t make any European countries feel any safer. And it will set a precedent for all the autocrats out there who want to do the same. In terms of the press coverage, I’m not sure. I think it’s more about people trying to understand why Trump voters voted the way they did, but you’re right that that can sound like justifying it. It’s all a tragic mess, really.
With a great deal of respect, I want to point out that, “America, this is on you“ is a generality. Approximately 60% of eligible voters bothered to go to the polls. Less than 50% voted for Trump. That means more than 50% voted for somebody else. So less than 30% of eligible vultures voted for Trump. I and most of the people who I consider my closest friends voted for Kamala. Some voted for Trump and based on conversations with them, it is painfully brutally obvious to me that they have no faintest clue about the effect of what they did. They are politically stupid. Most really didn’t know that tariffs are paid by the consumer. They have no idea at all of what a mass deportation would do to the economy. A woman’s right to have autonomy over her own body doesn’t directly immediately affect any of them so it’s some wild abstract concept as far as they’re concerned. My observation is that many of the people who voted for him did it because he’s entertaining. No. Other. Reason. It horrifies and disgusts me that that is the case. They will suffer from the results and like boiled frogs. They probably won’t even notice it until it’s too late. Just to clarify, I do believe that a very large percentage of the people who voted for Trump actually do understand and actually want the results of his presidency. These people have fallen so under the spell of evil that, once decent, they have become evil themselves. And many were already evil and we’re just looking for a mouthpiece. But many of them are just stupid. They haven’t a clue. And of course, that’s what autocrats count on. Those of us who are in the 51% of the 60% actively don’t want him. Hate him and his henchmen. And then, there are the 40% of eligible voters who never lifted a finger to vote. What’s up with them? Apathy? Hopelessness? Disgust with the system? Illiteracy? Too completely wrapped up in their own lives and situations to have any free attention for any of this? And how did the Democrats/liberals/progressives allow such a disaster to occur? I’ll be getting my own Substack going soon to discuss that. But it may have something to do with the Dems being utterly out of touch with the electorate and not sufficiently aware of what they were up against. Or in denial of it. I’ve been saying for years that the Democrats keep bringing a ballpoint pen to a knife fight. And so they did. And they got slashed. More thoughts on this coming soon to a Substack near you. In the meantime, if you could be a bit more precise with your statement about “America”, I would really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment, Michael. I don't disagree with any of it. When I wrote this, it looked as if more than 50% of the voters had voted for Trump. In the end, as you say, it was slightly under 50%. And, given those who didn't vote, that was certainly a lot less than half the eligible population. In the UK 52% of voters voted for Brexit, but turnout was only 72%. So it was much less than half the population who voted for the thing that will determine our future for decades, the thing that breaks the heart of those of us who were in the 48%. But that's democracy. As Churchill said, the worst system that has yet been invented, apart from all the other ones. A system, it has to be said, that doesn't seem to be up to the challenges of Musk, Putin etc, but I've no idea what anyone does about this.
I absolutely hear what you say about political stupidity. It was the same with Brexit and it's never entirely clear where lack of curiosity equates to serious moral abnegation. The result was that "Britain voted for Brexit" just as "America voted for Trump". But I see that "America, this is on you" seems harsh in the light of this. I also understand (sort of) political ignorance and its sometimes disastrous consequences. I do think it's so clear who Trump is that I don't understand how "decent" people could have voted for him anyway, but perhaps that's my failure of imagination. I absolutely agree that the Democrats brought a ballpoint pen to a knife fight. I think the right has a much more clear-eyed view of humanity and its yearnings than the left, who tend to rely on dreams of the "hopey-changey" stuff that are often ill-founded. And those of us who are "progressive" need to wise up. So, broadly, I agree with you - and I can't wait to read your Substack. Very best wishes, Christina
Thank you, Christina. I’ve given a lot of thought to political stupidity. I’m sure it will be discussed in a Substack or several. Part of it is that the United States as a whole is not nearly as literate as it used to be. People who cannot read and understand political discourse and think critically about it are, to use a highly complex sociological term, screwed. And if enough of them vote, those of us who are literate are equally screwed no matter how skillfully we wield our ballpoint pens. Such is democracy. But at least we have crisps.
Yes, exactly this. It’s not great in the UK, but the gap in educational standards is not as big as in the US. Combine political stupidity with algorithms, Musks and Trumps and you have a sonic missile that can’t be shot down. But we have to try etc.
Hi Christina, Haven't been in touch for a while. I trust you are well as much as you / we can be after this shock though it was entirely predictable, as you say. I admire your optimism in suggesting it'll be only four years. I don't believe so. You may find this of interest. -
Hello John. Many thanks for sending through those pieces. As you say, not cheering. I agree that Trumpism (or a version of it) is probably here to stay in the Republican party, at least for a while. But I think the economic damage to poorer Americans will be so high that it's possible there will be a swing away from it by the time of the next election, if the Democrats get their act together. We will have to see (and hope and pray). I hope all's well with you. Christina x
I am well thank you, Christina (provided I don't think about politics or the World in general ;) Enjoying a surprisingly sunny day in sleepy Hythe. Meditation on chilly shingle. Yes, we must try to remain optimistic as you say, not convinced though. Take care you. x John
I like to think I have a good sense of humour. But, as you say, there is nothing funny about this - indeed the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Laughter can help us through many things. Not this…😢
I think a couple of small comforts is that although he won, he won with 50.09% of the vote and that might still be smaller by the time they finish counting. This is probably the smallest ‘win’ since 2000. The second thing is that the worry is that he would nominate far right but competent people and I’m not seeing it. Every single person nominated is out of their depth, except maybe Rubio who at least knows how to hire a good chief of staff. That doesn’t mean they aren’t going to cause some suffering and pain, but it means there’s a chance that any crazy plans can be dragged out so long by the time they get implemented we might have a new Congress or President. Finally, Speaker Johnson couldn't get anything through the House without the help of democrats, and I’m expecting it to be the same this time. And if that’s the case then Democrats should demand a price to get their votes.
The other thing I was to say here is that Harris ran one of the best campaigns I’ve seen in years. I don’t think that anyone else could have pulled this off despite the sniping by the press and other democrats. Yes they could have messaged something’s differently but I doubt it would have had much effect. Too much media power against them (Fox, X, right wing podcasts, poor reporting by the Post and Times who only realized Trump was a fascist at the last minute). It’s incredibly disappointing that once again an incompetent man is picked over a competent women, but we’ll really see how much power he has when the GOP starts calculating if they want to keep their seats two or four years from now. Even if he tries to be a dictator, he’s 78 years old. He won’t be here forever, but the voters will be, and the shock to the economy will make a lot of them unhappy once all the reinvestments the Biden administration made start running out. This isn’t 2016, which is probably why I’m worried, slightly depressed that people aren’t as considerate as they should be (or that they don’t understand how inflation works), but I am not in the despair I was in back then. As Harris says, when it’s dark, there are still the stars, and there are thousands of them shining brightly with hope.
Many thanks for your thoughtful reply, Paul. All very interesting, though you're clearly much more of an optimist than me! How are your liberal colleagues/friends/neighbours coping with what has happened? Do they share your optimism?
Some do, some don’t. A lot of them are freaking out a bit over the cabinet choices but like Musk’s dept of efficiency it’s too soon to say even if they will get through the senate (like of the $900 billion he posted about today, $895 billion is interest payments and the government paying early. Neither of which he could do anything about so it’s all smoke and mirrors). I think they are all disappointed not that it was close, but so many seemed to have forgotten the stress of living with Trump 24/7 last time, and the fact he’s a convicted felon and a danger to the republic. It is depressing, but based on the media reality that say WV is under, they sort of comfort themselves that they will get the government they voted for and they are frankly going to hurt worse than they are (because we live in a blue state).
I should add quite a few are angry at the media for pulling punches, and the NYTimes headline and the story they sat on and dropped today just emphasized that point. It’s going to take a lot for the media to get the respect it used to have.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Personally, I think it's too late for the mainstream media to have much influence and particularly the traditional outlets like the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. Most Trump voters get their news (if we can call it that) from other outlets. This feels to me like a rubicon and I'm not 100% sure that America can recover from this, but obviously I hope I'm wrong.
A great read and sums up how I feel about this - astonishing that half of America wanted this, but also accepting this and moving on, while keeping ones own values intact. Good will out (we hope)
Thank you for putting what so many of us are feeling into words, Christina. I am trying to keep my head up, but have been reeling since November 6. I couldn’t bring myself to stay up to watch the election results, but made the mistake of checking my phone when I woke up at 2:30 in the morning. I didn’t go back to sleep. Instead, I doom scrolled on TikTok looking for any shred of hope. There weren’t any. At 4:45, I called my beau in tears. A few minutes later, my daughter - who had seen that I was active on TikTok - texted me, “Are you awake?” She and I cried together over FaceTime, and stayed on that call throughout the morning because it was the only way that we could support each other. My daughter is a lesbian, and even though we live in a blue state, the outcome of this election hit her in a very personal way on top of all the, other national and global reasons for fear, anger, and despair.
I honestly do not know how we will survive this. But we will have to. Unfortunately, I feel like the deck is stacked against us because while we were trying to be good people, there was an army of well-funded fascists laying a terrifyingly, broad and strong foundation upon which to rebuild the world and their own terrible vision. Only after, of course, they have decimated the institutions that have protected so many for so long.
To be honest, I feel like I am still lingering on the edges of the denial stage of grief. As you so perfectly, describe it, I have moments in my waking hours when I almost forget what has happened. But then the reality of it comes rushing back, and I feel that pit in my stomach. In the days and years ahead, we will all need to be strong. We will need to build strong communities. I’m so glad to have met you and to be here in this community together.
I am absolutely devastated by the result but I also don’t think that calling everyone who voted for Trump a fascist helps things at all. I also think that this is easy to deride from a distance but it’s much more complex here in America. I am living in Dc at the moment and have just spent a week in west Texas. Yes, many decent people voted for him, for an incredibly wide range of complex issues, many relating to the source of their news. It’s really not as simple as people voting for Trump because they want cheaper eggs . I abhor everything he stands for and is, and I am completely gutted, but labelling everyone fascist who voted for him is to misunderstand life in America at the moment and entrenches divisions, which is partly at the root of this problem.
I have to admit I'm surprised by the tone of this, Clover. As Hannah Arendt has taught us, the origins of fascism and totalitarianism are always complex and have been made a million times more complex by social media and the changes in news and media consumption. Politicians will clearly need to build bridges with people who knowingly voted for someone who tried to overthrow democracy (I think most Americans at least saw the coverage of that). But I'm not a politician. I'm a political commentator and I see it as my role to write clearly about this darkest moment in our history, at least in our lifetimes. The technical term for people who vote for a fascist is fascist. They may be friendly, pleasant in lots of ways etc, but that doesn't make what they have done any less terrible. We will clearly just have to agree to disagree profoundly on this, which is one of the joys of free speech. If you choose to stay in America, I wish you and your family the very best of luck.
Hi Christina good piece. I would be interested to know what you think of press coverage of Trump in UK since Trump reelected. I have found it very poor with many people trying to justify the way people voted. The only good thing t can possibly think of coming put of Trump administration is the end of the Ukraine war. I can't understand why Biden is not pushing for this as Ukraine army clearly now very demoralised and keen to gey a negotiated peace and seem to have accepted losing Crimea. All wars end without everyone happy unfortunately. I would like Ukraine to get all their land back but this is clearly not going to happen now for various reasons so I just want the war to end. If Trump can achieve this quickly this will be good
Can't see any other positives from his next 4 years. I hope there is something else as otherwise be long 4 years.
Thank you, Iain. The end of the Ukraine war would, of course, be good, but if it sets the precedent (as it will) that you can invade another country, steal their land and keep it, it certainly won’t make any European countries feel any safer. And it will set a precedent for all the autocrats out there who want to do the same. In terms of the press coverage, I’m not sure. I think it’s more about people trying to understand why Trump voters voted the way they did, but you’re right that that can sound like justifying it. It’s all a tragic mess, really.
With a great deal of respect, I want to point out that, “America, this is on you“ is a generality. Approximately 60% of eligible voters bothered to go to the polls. Less than 50% voted for Trump. That means more than 50% voted for somebody else. So less than 30% of eligible vultures voted for Trump. I and most of the people who I consider my closest friends voted for Kamala. Some voted for Trump and based on conversations with them, it is painfully brutally obvious to me that they have no faintest clue about the effect of what they did. They are politically stupid. Most really didn’t know that tariffs are paid by the consumer. They have no idea at all of what a mass deportation would do to the economy. A woman’s right to have autonomy over her own body doesn’t directly immediately affect any of them so it’s some wild abstract concept as far as they’re concerned. My observation is that many of the people who voted for him did it because he’s entertaining. No. Other. Reason. It horrifies and disgusts me that that is the case. They will suffer from the results and like boiled frogs. They probably won’t even notice it until it’s too late. Just to clarify, I do believe that a very large percentage of the people who voted for Trump actually do understand and actually want the results of his presidency. These people have fallen so under the spell of evil that, once decent, they have become evil themselves. And many were already evil and we’re just looking for a mouthpiece. But many of them are just stupid. They haven’t a clue. And of course, that’s what autocrats count on. Those of us who are in the 51% of the 60% actively don’t want him. Hate him and his henchmen. And then, there are the 40% of eligible voters who never lifted a finger to vote. What’s up with them? Apathy? Hopelessness? Disgust with the system? Illiteracy? Too completely wrapped up in their own lives and situations to have any free attention for any of this? And how did the Democrats/liberals/progressives allow such a disaster to occur? I’ll be getting my own Substack going soon to discuss that. But it may have something to do with the Dems being utterly out of touch with the electorate and not sufficiently aware of what they were up against. Or in denial of it. I’ve been saying for years that the Democrats keep bringing a ballpoint pen to a knife fight. And so they did. And they got slashed. More thoughts on this coming soon to a Substack near you. In the meantime, if you could be a bit more precise with your statement about “America”, I would really appreciate it.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment, Michael. I don't disagree with any of it. When I wrote this, it looked as if more than 50% of the voters had voted for Trump. In the end, as you say, it was slightly under 50%. And, given those who didn't vote, that was certainly a lot less than half the eligible population. In the UK 52% of voters voted for Brexit, but turnout was only 72%. So it was much less than half the population who voted for the thing that will determine our future for decades, the thing that breaks the heart of those of us who were in the 48%. But that's democracy. As Churchill said, the worst system that has yet been invented, apart from all the other ones. A system, it has to be said, that doesn't seem to be up to the challenges of Musk, Putin etc, but I've no idea what anyone does about this.
I absolutely hear what you say about political stupidity. It was the same with Brexit and it's never entirely clear where lack of curiosity equates to serious moral abnegation. The result was that "Britain voted for Brexit" just as "America voted for Trump". But I see that "America, this is on you" seems harsh in the light of this. I also understand (sort of) political ignorance and its sometimes disastrous consequences. I do think it's so clear who Trump is that I don't understand how "decent" people could have voted for him anyway, but perhaps that's my failure of imagination. I absolutely agree that the Democrats brought a ballpoint pen to a knife fight. I think the right has a much more clear-eyed view of humanity and its yearnings than the left, who tend to rely on dreams of the "hopey-changey" stuff that are often ill-founded. And those of us who are "progressive" need to wise up. So, broadly, I agree with you - and I can't wait to read your Substack. Very best wishes, Christina
Thank you, Christina. I’ve given a lot of thought to political stupidity. I’m sure it will be discussed in a Substack or several. Part of it is that the United States as a whole is not nearly as literate as it used to be. People who cannot read and understand political discourse and think critically about it are, to use a highly complex sociological term, screwed. And if enough of them vote, those of us who are literate are equally screwed no matter how skillfully we wield our ballpoint pens. Such is democracy. But at least we have crisps.
Yes, exactly this. It’s not great in the UK, but the gap in educational standards is not as big as in the US. Combine political stupidity with algorithms, Musks and Trumps and you have a sonic missile that can’t be shot down. But we have to try etc.
Yes. Perfect storm. Except maybe not so accidental.
I woke up to the news that Trump was in. I couldn’t bear to watch it. The sickening prospect of seeing his lead build was too off putting.
The shock of such a conclusive win made me realise that fascism is popular.
Maybe if Afghanistan had democratic votes for all, including women, they would vote in the Taliban!
I just can’t get my head around women voting for Trump.
Yes, fascism appears to be extremely popular. I'm pretty sure that 54% of white women voted for Trump. We are living through very, very dark times.
Hi Christina, Haven't been in touch for a while. I trust you are well as much as you / we can be after this shock though it was entirely predictable, as you say. I admire your optimism in suggesting it'll be only four years. I don't believe so. You may find this of interest. -
https://davidallengreen.com/2024/11/the-shapes-of-things-to-come-some-thoughts-and-speculations-on-the-possibilities-of-what-can-happen-next/
(Another one to follow. Sorry 😞
Best Wishes as Ever ~ John Owen
Hello John. Many thanks for sending through those pieces. As you say, not cheering. I agree that Trumpism (or a version of it) is probably here to stay in the Republican party, at least for a while. But I think the economic damage to poorer Americans will be so high that it's possible there will be a swing away from it by the time of the next election, if the Democrats get their act together. We will have to see (and hope and pray). I hope all's well with you. Christina x
I am well thank you, Christina (provided I don't think about politics or the World in general ;) Enjoying a surprisingly sunny day in sleepy Hythe. Meditation on chilly shingle. Yes, we must try to remain optimistic as you say, not convinced though. Take care you. x John
I like to think I have a good sense of humour. But, as you say, there is nothing funny about this - indeed the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Laughter can help us through many things. Not this…😢
No, not this. Some things really are beyond laughter. We can only hope and pray that there are some checks on these lunatics...
Thank you for this excellent summary of exactly how I feel.
Thank you, David. I think those of us who still believe in decency need to be reassure that we are not alone...
I think a couple of small comforts is that although he won, he won with 50.09% of the vote and that might still be smaller by the time they finish counting. This is probably the smallest ‘win’ since 2000. The second thing is that the worry is that he would nominate far right but competent people and I’m not seeing it. Every single person nominated is out of their depth, except maybe Rubio who at least knows how to hire a good chief of staff. That doesn’t mean they aren’t going to cause some suffering and pain, but it means there’s a chance that any crazy plans can be dragged out so long by the time they get implemented we might have a new Congress or President. Finally, Speaker Johnson couldn't get anything through the House without the help of democrats, and I’m expecting it to be the same this time. And if that’s the case then Democrats should demand a price to get their votes.
The other thing I was to say here is that Harris ran one of the best campaigns I’ve seen in years. I don’t think that anyone else could have pulled this off despite the sniping by the press and other democrats. Yes they could have messaged something’s differently but I doubt it would have had much effect. Too much media power against them (Fox, X, right wing podcasts, poor reporting by the Post and Times who only realized Trump was a fascist at the last minute). It’s incredibly disappointing that once again an incompetent man is picked over a competent women, but we’ll really see how much power he has when the GOP starts calculating if they want to keep their seats two or four years from now. Even if he tries to be a dictator, he’s 78 years old. He won’t be here forever, but the voters will be, and the shock to the economy will make a lot of them unhappy once all the reinvestments the Biden administration made start running out. This isn’t 2016, which is probably why I’m worried, slightly depressed that people aren’t as considerate as they should be (or that they don’t understand how inflation works), but I am not in the despair I was in back then. As Harris says, when it’s dark, there are still the stars, and there are thousands of them shining brightly with hope.
Many thanks for your thoughtful reply, Paul. All very interesting, though you're clearly much more of an optimist than me! How are your liberal colleagues/friends/neighbours coping with what has happened? Do they share your optimism?
Some do, some don’t. A lot of them are freaking out a bit over the cabinet choices but like Musk’s dept of efficiency it’s too soon to say even if they will get through the senate (like of the $900 billion he posted about today, $895 billion is interest payments and the government paying early. Neither of which he could do anything about so it’s all smoke and mirrors). I think they are all disappointed not that it was close, but so many seemed to have forgotten the stress of living with Trump 24/7 last time, and the fact he’s a convicted felon and a danger to the republic. It is depressing, but based on the media reality that say WV is under, they sort of comfort themselves that they will get the government they voted for and they are frankly going to hurt worse than they are (because we live in a blue state).
I should add quite a few are angry at the media for pulling punches, and the NYTimes headline and the story they sat on and dropped today just emphasized that point. It’s going to take a lot for the media to get the respect it used to have.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Personally, I think it's too late for the mainstream media to have much influence and particularly the traditional outlets like the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. Most Trump voters get their news (if we can call it that) from other outlets. This feels to me like a rubicon and I'm not 100% sure that America can recover from this, but obviously I hope I'm wrong.
A great read and sums up how I feel about this - astonishing that half of America wanted this, but also accepting this and moving on, while keeping ones own values intact. Good will out (we hope)
Thank you, Andrew. Yes, let's hope that good will out, though I fear that won't be for a while...
Thank you for putting what so many of us are feeling into words, Christina. I am trying to keep my head up, but have been reeling since November 6. I couldn’t bring myself to stay up to watch the election results, but made the mistake of checking my phone when I woke up at 2:30 in the morning. I didn’t go back to sleep. Instead, I doom scrolled on TikTok looking for any shred of hope. There weren’t any. At 4:45, I called my beau in tears. A few minutes later, my daughter - who had seen that I was active on TikTok - texted me, “Are you awake?” She and I cried together over FaceTime, and stayed on that call throughout the morning because it was the only way that we could support each other. My daughter is a lesbian, and even though we live in a blue state, the outcome of this election hit her in a very personal way on top of all the, other national and global reasons for fear, anger, and despair.
I honestly do not know how we will survive this. But we will have to. Unfortunately, I feel like the deck is stacked against us because while we were trying to be good people, there was an army of well-funded fascists laying a terrifyingly, broad and strong foundation upon which to rebuild the world and their own terrible vision. Only after, of course, they have decimated the institutions that have protected so many for so long.
To be honest, I feel like I am still lingering on the edges of the denial stage of grief. As you so perfectly, describe it, I have moments in my waking hours when I almost forget what has happened. But then the reality of it comes rushing back, and I feel that pit in my stomach. In the days and years ahead, we will all need to be strong. We will need to build strong communities. I’m so glad to have met you and to be here in this community together.
I am absolutely devastated by the result but I also don’t think that calling everyone who voted for Trump a fascist helps things at all. I also think that this is easy to deride from a distance but it’s much more complex here in America. I am living in Dc at the moment and have just spent a week in west Texas. Yes, many decent people voted for him, for an incredibly wide range of complex issues, many relating to the source of their news. It’s really not as simple as people voting for Trump because they want cheaper eggs . I abhor everything he stands for and is, and I am completely gutted, but labelling everyone fascist who voted for him is to misunderstand life in America at the moment and entrenches divisions, which is partly at the root of this problem.
I have to admit I'm surprised by the tone of this, Clover. As Hannah Arendt has taught us, the origins of fascism and totalitarianism are always complex and have been made a million times more complex by social media and the changes in news and media consumption. Politicians will clearly need to build bridges with people who knowingly voted for someone who tried to overthrow democracy (I think most Americans at least saw the coverage of that). But I'm not a politician. I'm a political commentator and I see it as my role to write clearly about this darkest moment in our history, at least in our lifetimes. The technical term for people who vote for a fascist is fascist. They may be friendly, pleasant in lots of ways etc, but that doesn't make what they have done any less terrible. We will clearly just have to agree to disagree profoundly on this, which is one of the joys of free speech. If you choose to stay in America, I wish you and your family the very best of luck.
... here's the other one:
https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/11/election-shows-trumpism-here-stay?utm_source=Chatham%20House&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=14737413_CH%20-%20CH%20Newsletter%20-%2008.11.24&utm_content=Trump-Title&dm_i=1S3M,8RVGL,4KYCND,10HCA2,1
~ John x